We Love You, You Bastards

What happened to my love-bombing? Where are those arms that reached out all the way from the Olympic Velodrome? Where is the shared history and where the shared principles? What happened to the family of nations bound by ties of blood and history? Am I to think that on the back of Please don’t go are added the words or you’ll pay for it?

Now I don’t expect an easy ride from a cold-hearted, self-interested clique used to telling everyone what to do, but some consistency might help with the credibility.

Were we not told that there would be no pre-negotiation? What is a statement *(always assuming it comes) that there will be no deal on currency but staking out a negotiating position? Making a declaration in absolute terms – always assuming this isn’t smoke and mirrors – is negotiating because they are ruling out one option from future talks, or so it seems. If they do that then it has implications for the position taken by the Scottish side who are obliged to respond. That is called negotiation. Will there now follow more of this on for example EU membership, defence assets etc? Or is it the case that they say one thing and do another and can’t be trusted?

The message contained in these briefings to journalists is that Britain is not an equal country of equal national rights. It is a statement – by all the main Unionists – that Scotland has no stake in the UK. We have, according to them, contributed nothing to the pound, made no impact on the UK’s finances, the reserves and fiscal policy and as a result deserve nothing out of it. Is it £300 or £400 billions in oil revenues and they count for nothing. How much in corporation tax from Royal Bank alone over the years? We have been taken for a ride, if they are right. What they are saying is that Britain belongs to them, lock, stock and barrel and more fool the Scots for thinking they were really partners.

It is difficult to see how they can pretend now to love Scotland with more melancholic sub-Wordsworth fancies when they unite behind vindictive John Bull obduracy. Even at risk to their own interests they will resist the economic logic.

What on earth do Labour people in Scotland make of their party shoulder to shoulder with the Tories threatening the Scots by denying them access to their own currency? How many humiliations can they stand? Isn’t this issue an area for a distinctive Labour voice? They are the party of liberal conscience and could strike a separate, less strident anti-Scottish tone by standing to one side and doing a Carney by saying of course it’s possible but they would have to weigh up the implications if they are elected. Instead the rush along behind the Tories like their little Labour helpers.

Interesting that Jackie Baillie couldn’t answer on Newsnight when asked if she supported the currency blockade. Either Labour in Scotland wasn’t informed in advance – again – or they are unconvinced by it. They will know this is a hard sell on the doorstep. Why can’t we use our own currency? Because our friends the Tories say so…

Still you can see how the fear game is the only hand they can play. Scare the elderly and the pensioners, ignore the truth about Scotland being able to meet pension commitments more easily than the UK and wring your hands a lot. It will frighten those with knock knees.

But to be fair this is a campaign and you have keep moving. They have been determined to push Yes into offering a Plan B as it is obviously their trump card. No doubt they will link it to the Euro which they still think – against a lot of evidence – is toxic. If this statement is ever made, the spirit of the Edinburgh Agreement is dead and this becomes more of a fight than a debate. Their plan is not to win but to crush. But at least what will happen is that experts will now focus on this decision and, as we found in the Financial Times reports on our finances, it will emerge just what Scotland does bring to the currency table and I await with interest the Unionist business types going public. If they trade in Scotland how can they agree with this position? And if they don’t will they be intimidated into keeping quiet?

This has to be seen as a challenge, a kind of toe-to-toe argument, and the proportionate response is No Pound: No Debt.

The English trolls are already bellowing online that it isn’t fair…Scotland can’t just walk away and has a moral responsibility to take its share etc…funny how it’s changed from We won’t miss you…our economy’s too big to notice. It may be dawning that Scotland has cards to play and dumping all the debt on them is one of them.

*(Wouldn’t it be just like the Tories to renege on the Osborne statement and give us something less affirmative?)


64 thoughts on “We Love You, You Bastards

  1. “English trolls”


    • Grahamski,

      You are that Englsh troll. You might not think so, but coming from Falkirk doesn’t excuse your supercillious shit.

      Or maybe you are a troil for the English. Or more likely, a troll for the Labour Party, which failed us.

      Go away and think again.

    • Grahamski

      In all seriousness, what is your reaction to the impending threat by Osborne?

      No insults, no name calling, no cheap shots, as one Scotsman to another what is your take on this threat?

      My personal opinion is that I cannot understand why the UK establishment believe threatening Scotland will work for them. We’re surely as a nation not that craven?

      • Mr Cox

        It’s not a threat.

        If I asked my neighbour to go halfers on a fence and he declined, he’s not bullying me, threatening me or intimidating me. I could say it would benefit us both but if he doesn’t want the fence I can’t force him.

        I also understand completely why the UK would have a problem underwriting the banks of and sharing sovereignty with a country which had just voted to leave it.

        I can’t understand why those who tell us how awful the UK is are so insistent that it should control the economy of a separate Scotland by setting its spending, borrowing limits, income tax and interest rates.

        That position, quite frankly, doesn’t add up.



  2. Speaking of trolls…He’s behind you! Anyway a point worth mentioning is that Osborne does not have the authority to actually carry out the threat. We know it’s just guff but the media will play along with it. I would love it if we got our own currency and played them at their own game by refusing to pay the share of the debt.

  3. “They have been determined to push Yes into offering a Plan B as it is obviously their trump card. No doubt they will link it to the Euro which they still think – against a lot of evidence – is toxic.”

    Whatever the up and downs of it, we can’t just join the euro. To qualify we need to have our own currency (sounds like that is about to happen) and then demonstrate sound management of your own currency (central bank competence, good record on borrowing/repayment, manageable budget deficit*) over a period of time and THEN you can get to apply to join the euro. EU Membership requirements are only to commit in principle to joining the euro, we still have to go through own currency route.

    *Or have Goldman Sachs help you with your workings, like Greece.

  4. Westminster must have run out of love-bombs.

  5. “*(Wouldn’t it be just like the Tories to renege on the Osborne statement and give us something less affirmative?)”

    I wait with bated breath for Osborne’s, and Labour, LibDem ‘statements’. Whatever they do they are fucked. If Osborne starts off and actually makes a categorically “no Currency Union” speech, the YES campaign will have a field day, claiming Scotland won’t take any debt, bullying by WM, Tories may not even be in power, LibDems almost certainly won’t be, and Labour will backtrack before their turn comes. And the City and business will not like it one bit – the long trail before the speech is to get reaction from them. All of these facts together give a gift to YES.
    If he bottles it and gives the usual mealy mouthed statement which talks about the difficulties but doesn’t go as far as to rule out a CU he will be a bigger laughing stock than Cameron has become with his love bombing speech. Even the London metropollyannas will be laughing at him. And the YES campaign will again have a field day as the YES vote rises.
    I thought these people at WM were supposed to be clever? Apparently not.

  6. England is drowning.

  7. Maybe not that clever. But even George Osborne’s not that daft to spook the markets by saying no way, over our dead bodies. Is he? Won’t happen. It’ll be more this would be very very very difficult and Scotland will have to jump through hoops and play to our tune and be denied a seat on the BoE and pass their tax plans by us first, and, and anything else the Daily Mail can think of.

  8. Sounds like – it is my ball and I’m no playing.

  9. As a guy in receipt of my State Pension and a Public Sector Pension, I am in no doubt that an Independent Scotland will be able to keep paying these. As for the point about the Pound (or the lack of it) scaring us- Remember we are the ones who actually lived through the lies of the 70’s and we will not be fooled again. YES for Scotland.

  10. What a bunch of spineless nasty morons. Putting the frighteners on the poor, old and weak for their own selfish ends. Despicable, excuse for human beings, I want nothing to do with these parasites, liars and bullies.


  11. I say f*ck’em.

    Let’s start fresh with our own currency (I like the sound of 100 bawbees to the Groat), and peg it to the Euro, because the pound is gonna sink like a stone without Scottish assets to back it.

    If they then play hardball on European membership, let’s go the EFTA route.

    Currency Union and EC membership might be nice things to have, but plenty of small countries get by without them. As long as we have our independence, these choices are ours to make, and no
    Westminster clique to overrule OUR priorities.

    • My vote is for a new currency called The Barrel,if for no other reason than to remind the London elite what they have given up.
      You could even say that we have got them over a barrel !

      • I think the Unicorn would be great. Imagine being paid in Unicorns! Or paying a unicorn fifty to get on the bus. And it’s an actual historical Scottish coin that was worth in the region of 20 shillings! I can imagine some of the jibes, of course, but I think it would be worth it.

    • UK is not in a position to play hardball over the EU. It is pretty much irrelevant therein. No-one supports its semi-detached view of Europe. And it might not even be in the EU!

  12. An Duine Gruamach

    Remarkable. Derek mentions “trolls” and, as if by magic, Grahamski appears on the thread.

    Graham, me ol’ mucker, quick question. If there was an internet troll and they were from England, how would *you* describe them? Welsh goats? Serbian wallpaper salesmen? Peruvian toothbrushes?

  13. Form love bomb to damp squib in less than a week

  14. There is a general obligation on UK under Article 4 of the IMF Articles of Agreement not to do anything that would upset monetary stability. Maybe George Osborne and Ed Balls need to go and reread that? http://www.imf.org/External/Pubs/FT/AA/index.htm#art4

  15. The Adam Smith Institute’s Research Director Sam Bowman today said:

    “An independent Scotland would not need England’s permission to continue using the pound sterling, and in fact would be better off using the pound without such permission.

    “There is very little that an English government would actually be able to do to stop Scottish people from continuing to use the pound sterling if they wanted to.”

    “An independent Scotland that used the pound as its base currency without the English government’s permission, with banks continuing to issue notes privately and private citizens free to choose any currency they wanted, would probably have a more stable financial system and economy than England itself.”

  16. Ian Murray, (Labour, Edinburgh South) talking down Scotland at Westminster.

  17. @Papadox.
    That’s the way they’re taught to play at their public schools. Bully the fags, humiliate the oiks!

  18. Michael McCann, (Labour) talking down Scotland at Westminster.

  19. Michael McCann, (Labour) having trouble just talking.

  20. Ian MacKenzie, (Labour) talking down Scotland at Westminster.

  21. Anas Sarwar (Labour), talking down himself. So no change there.

  22. Willie Bain (Labour) speaking for Anas Sarwar

  23. It would appear that the Scottish Labour MPs have the same speech writer. The repetition is stark.

  24. Katy Clark (Labour) talking down Scotland at Westminster.

  25. Katy Clark no where near making a point. It seems the issue is disappearing far from Ms Clark’s sight.

  26. Tory MPs struggling with what Cathy Jamieson is trying to say.

  27. Cathy Jamison talking about talking down Scotland.

  28. Willie Bain makes a comment that Cathy Jamieson doesn’t understand.

  29. If the English media, with no axe to grind, investigate this properly, Project Fear is f#cked. The Bank of England won’t stand for this sort of uncertainty – they won’t back Osborne – that’s not where their “duty” lies.

  30. Jackie Baillie is too busy giving talks at the cowal conservative lunch club.

  31. Have just signed the yes declaration, I can’t put up with this nonsense any longer, am absolutely disgusted at the way many of my fellow countrymen are taking great pleasure in talking us down. I always expected to vote with my head but sod it the heart will have to do.

  32. When David Cameron was instructing English people to call their Scottish friends, maybe he meant them to ask “please share our debts”?

    • Yes, that is more like it, but the more I see and hear convinces me that Scotland only counts for what they can get out of us, and in many ways. ” Please share our debts” I am inclined to say NO!

  33. Just in from the pub, consensus?

    Feck ’em, let’s go!

  34. Ah latest on BBC Radio the 3 Westminster parties are not saying ‘no’ but setting conditions on fiscal measures tax etc- so Derek you were right to suspect it was not no. Lets start negotiations now!

  35. […] As Derek Bateman, the Beeb’s newly feral journalist puts it (‘We Love you You Bastards’): […]

  36. Translation of Westminster releases of the past week.

    We love you, please stay…

    …OR ELSE.

    They can, in all humility and honesty, STICK IT RIGHT UP… 🙂

  37. No Pound no debt its as simple as that as far as I am concerned,I also heard Pickles I think speaking about the flooding and money no object as they had a contingency fund for these things so do we get a share of that.

  38. It maybe useful to hear your views on the way the BBC were quite implicit in carrying this story. From last night’s correspondents’ reports from ‘government sources’ of Osborne making a speech ‘definitely ruling out a currency agreement’ to the constantly firming of the story during the day, to suddenly ‘its not going to be ruled out’. I think your ex colleagues have been played, and as you’ve mentioned before, editorial robustness measures ?. The story should never of been carried in this way.

  39. It’s all a load of nonsense, re the Pound. Stewart Hosie/Nick Robinson say, ‘that Osbourne isn’t going to rule out a currency union’. Nick Robinson has that on his blog. It’s BBC Scotland (not again) that is reporting wrongly.

    • Pity he didn’t say that on his Radio4 piece this evening at 6. He clearly said in the headline, no less, that all 3 unionists parties would issue statements saying no – to start with GO tomorrow. And then a few mins in to his piece came the caveat …not actually no, but possible with 3 conditions. Of course, no thoughts on negotiation or on the inappropriateness of no negotiation. Finished up with the no position. Are we to believe that he didn’t say what he said.

  40. Alastair Darling I’ve never taken to as a politician, now I am certain there’s not much there in terms of being a man.

    Amidst this threat of Osborne blocking a currency union, Darling goes on the attack.

    Attacks who? The tories for threatening Scotland?

    Dear me no, he has attacked the SNP, for making a ‘reckless threat’!

    Really, this is astonishing. It’s one thing being a pro-union politician and another being an absolutely disreputable and untrustworthy man.

    Oh, and in The Herald the CEO of RBS has said they’ll adapt if Scotland votes for independence, and still serve Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    Wonder what Johann is thinking now about that question she chucked at the FM the other day about big business…

  41. “We love you so much that you will make us try to hurt you hard if you leave”
    That is an abusive relationship
    Best to get out Scotland!

  42. FMQs tomorrow could be fiery. In fact I can’t wait to see everything that goes down tomorrow. The BBC are still running a stark headline but the detail now says something different. The treasury will release a paper arguing for the way a currency union would need to work to be in everyone’s best interests, taking the lead from Carney. Osborne et al will then say bearing all this in mind, that it is very very very unlikely that such conditions could be met. They won’t formally absolutely rule out a currency union, or at least this is what seems to be the case. So why was the BBC etc. so keen to go along with it unquestioningly. They were fed a half-truth and accepted it without question, all the discussion was well, what does this mean, what will happen next etc.? The more obvious and essential journalistic reposte, is this really true? was the one that was sadly lacking. Not for the first time. Once again the comments on BBC and Guardian are an eye opener telling us exactly where we stand in the union.

    • Couldn’t agree more. The Guardian especially is becoming more Telegraph BTL with each passing week. The sheer joy at the thought of those uppity jocks being told where to get off lit up every article today. Literally thousands of posts and very little lurve or fellow feeling in evidence. My what an advert for BT and Dave’s phone a friend. 😉

    • FMQs? You do realise Holyrood is in recess?

  43. Nick Robinson always looks down when he is lying. He knows Oil receipts etc are supporting the £ but he can’t say that, trails off. It’s laughable.

  44. BBC Scotland, who’d have thought it. Slime on stilts.

  45. Simon Pia and John Mcternan ,gloating over this move by westminster .

    labour has just told Scotland westminster rules

  46. Danny Alexander seems to be trying to distance himself from his colleague’s stance. It must just have dawned on him that his constituents – even in far-from-Westminster Inverness-shire – are able to follow the news on our steam wirelesses. Now we know what he thinks and hopes for us. He won’t gives us the pound? We won’t give him our vote.

  47. So this has been unequivocally billed as “NO CURRENCY UNION”.
    If Osborne and Co say anything short of that, the weakness of their position will be obvious for all to see. Hopefully they will be pressed on that.

  48. I remember another time they thought they’d ‘shot the nationalist fox’ when they refused a winning third option in the referendum.

    This has all the hallmarks of more of such blindingly cunning insight.

  49. Hopefully this part of the debate can now get more concrete, but the BBC has to raise its game. This morning it was still suggesting that joining the euro might be a Plan B….

    We need our own currency (and demonstrate sound management of it) before we can join! I’d buy the BBC a subscription to Wikipedia, except it’s free – which is probably why they don’t use it.


    That leaves either introducing our own currency (which I think is the best option) or the informal use of sterling. It’s worth noting that of the precedents offered for this latter option – El Salvador, Panama (which does still have its own currency too) and Kosovo are generally relatively small economies, have an inflow of remittances and had built up cash reserves before making the move. They also follow quite conservative fiscal policies to create and keep a cushion against external shocks.

    If Denmark, Sweden and Norway can quite happily run their own currencies, I think this should be our preferred option over informal sterling usage.

  50. Yet another good, objective piece of journalism/blogging. The problem seems to be however that the Unionists are getting a free ride at saying what they want without objective scrutiny to what is being offered. Thank goodness for the net!!!!!!!!!

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